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[–]FochinellSelf-appointed Challah grader 44 points45 points  (2 children)

Conservative Judaism has mostly the same understanding of hahaha as Orthodox Judaism.

Depends more on the subject matter, less so on the punchline. But generally yes.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Oh jeez autocorrect 😳

[–]FochinellSelf-appointed Challah grader 16 points17 points  (0 children)

You were fine the first time. No need to change it.

[–]gertzedek 24 points25 points  (0 children)

In my community the gender egalitarian aspect is the hugest difference especially since we have a female rabbi.

[–]ClassifiedgarlicOrthodox feminist, and yes we exist 41 points42 points  (4 children)

In practicality: mechitzah, women leading services, congregants observance. In practicality at many conservative synagogues in North America shomer mitzvot are in the minority. In Orthodox spaces even the more “the synagogue I drive to is Orthodox” style of observance you are more likely to find shomer mitzvot people

[–]XanthyriaKosher Swordfish Expert 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Love the flair 🖤 glad after a few years someone else takes it on!

[–]Lanky-Salt-4990Hummus Enthusiast 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Hahahaha. Sounds like we have two Rashi fans

[–]XanthyriaKosher Swordfish Expert 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I prefer to think of it more as a “follows Halacha properly” mindset 😉 no need to make up arbitrary non-halachic restrictions with me!

[–]Lanky-Salt-4990Hummus Enthusiast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

😂

[–]TequillaShotz 30 points31 points  (5 children)

In practice, one of the biggest differences is your relationship to the community. Imagine living in a community where all of your fellow Jews live within walking distance of the shul and of each other: Shabbat and holidays become feel so communal-oriented - the community is not focused on the shul, it's more focused on the home and neighborhood. Few Conservatives have that; because they drive on Shabbat and holidays, they have no incentive to live near each other (other than a handful of traditionalists who don't drive).

[–]pdx_mom 8 points9 points  (4 children)

And I never learned the actual 'rules' around "you can drive on shabbat" until well into adulthood. The conservative rabbis who ruled on it never meant for it to become what it is today. It's not a get out of shabbos card, but is treated like that by many.

[–]Substantial-Image941 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Those same rabbis came out about 15+ years ago saying they'd made a mistake. I don't think they had anticipated the rise of modern suburbia.

[–]pdx_mom 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Oh certainly.

Horses barn out of etc.

I think the ruling was kind of like ...if the shul is in a fancy area many may not be able to live there but allowing them to drive there and back and create a community elsewhere (or allow them to go to someone's house for a meal near shul) is what was anticipated. Or The area around the shul gets to be awful and selling the building would be a huge loss and the community wouldn't be able to build a new building so everyone can create a community somewhere else but still have the building while other things are decided on.

But well. Here we are.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I understood it as, if you can't afford to live near the shul, we don't want you to be excluded from coming to shul on shabbat. Would that be accurate?

[–]pdx_mom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right, exactly -- that's what I said above -- but people took it to mean "you can drive on shabbat with no restrictions"

The ruling is supposed to be, you can go to shul and home. That's it.

[–]EntrepreneurOk7513 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Women counted for a minyan.

[–]hadassahmomModern Orthodox 13 points14 points  (3 children)

The congregations just don’t feel the same. In many ways ideologically I align with the conservative movement. My daughter goes to ramah. But modern orthodox shul has the community, the rhythm of Jewish life written into the congregation the way conservative Shula just haven’t in my experience. When someone is sick we all have a tehilim group chat, even like at 2AM. We show up for minyan at shiva homes. Meal trains are full. Shabbat lives and breathes every weekend, children play without watching the clock. I’ve never experienced this outside the orthodox world, and that’s why I’m there.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

This is really helpful, I think that's the impression that I've gotten but it's nice to hear it confirmed. I think this is one of the reasons I would be drawn to Orthodoxy... but I'm queer and I think Conservative theology speaks to me a bit more. I really see the value in this way of life, though.

[–]hadassahmomModern Orthodox 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I hear you. There’s lots of compromise. I am in a very open accepting modox congregation but even still Halacha is the rule. We strive to accept everyone and welcome everyone, and there are queer people in our congregation. But there are still limits (two men couldn’t be married by our rabbi, women don’t leyn, etc etc.) it’s not perfect! But the benefits for me and my family are worth it. I personally believe you can’t build a Jewish life from any one institution, so we interact with many other types of spaces and places.

[–]AuslanderNoah 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same

[–]Connect-Brick-3171 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the different divisions are internally quite diverse. Between them, they seem to segregate more by behavior than belief, though obligation of performance seems more characteristic of Orthodox.

There are now a lot of surveys of Judaism in America, including one done by The Cohen Center of Brandeis that had me as one of their 1065 research subjects. The questionnaires, whether Pew, Brandeis, or any other large survey, depend on the samples being representative of a larger population for which they have various weighting algorithms, and on the questions they ask being validated measures. All these surveys, including the one I performed, ask about denominational affiliation and ask the respondents questions about their adherence to various ritual practice. Some ask questions of theology. The one I took did not. These practices segregate by self-identified denomination, from Nones at one extreme to Haredi at the other. Generally data are released publicly in summary, sometimes the raw data is released with some protection of anonymity.

The best view of the difference between denominations can be found in that data.

[–]SpringLoadedScoop 4 points5 points  (3 children)

In doctrine, a lot of the differences between Conservative and Orthodox halacha (to me as a Jew in a Conservative synagogue) seem to be that Conservative halachic rulings on a new question seem to want to challenge, find fault in, and override previous halachic rulings that deal with related issues while Orthodox seem to cite and uphold previous rulings to re-apply them to new practices.

In practice, a lot of Conservative communities seem to have some similarity to this old joke/riddle:
Q: What is a Conservative synagogue?
A: A synagogue with an Orhthodox rabbi and a reform congregation.

In a previous synagogue, I remember the rabbi very often reminding people that the conservative movement didn't have the Reform mode of "everyone make up their own mind" and was supposed to be rabbinically based, because in practice that's is the way people treated it. Then he would ponder if the synagogue actually should be a conservative synagogue (and be aspirational to where the congregation should be) or re-affiliate themselves to where the congregation actually was.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How did people respond to that rabbi's pondering?

[–]SpringLoadedScoop 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well they were in pretty good practice of ignoring what he said, it wasn't hard to add one more thing to the list. Although the rabbi could suggest and nudge, any actual change would have had to come from the board and they never brought it up for discussion or vote.

Re-affiliating to another movement would have had a lot of political ramifications within the community. Although some wouldn't care either way (they picked the shul based on it being close to their homes, etc. and ignored what it purported to be) some would have been welcoming to a change to a more authentic representation of the community. Some would have been upset about changes to liturgy, etc. But some members, some who I really care about, really would have had a hard time because Conservative really described them. What that group needed was a halachic, but egalitarian form of Judaism. Theologically they wouldn't go to a reform shul, but practically they wouldn't be comfortable in the woman's section of an Orthodox shul.

I didn't like that so many of the congregants were hypocritical if you compared how they lived their life to what their synagogue membership purported them to believe. But I don't know where some members could go if our conservative shul went away

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, thank you for your response.

[–]pdx_mom 3 points4 points  (1 child)

The biggest difference I have seen, when I was at a conservative shul (as we are mostly now, but also very involved in Chabad):

Orthodox and Reform synagogues don't ask anything more of a rabbi than they do of themselves.

Conservative congregants want a Rabbi that is shomer shabbos, that keeps kosher, and that does lots of things that many congregants do not do.

[–]No_Bet_4427Sephardi Traditional/Pragmatic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The old joke that Conservatism is Jewish Christianity. Christians believe that Jesus vicariously fulfills the commandments, and de facto (but not de jure) Conservative Judaism believes the Rabbi vicariously fulfills the commandments.

[–]skyewardeyes 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Equality of women, acceptance of LGBTQ+ people actually being LGBTQ+, more accepting of relationships between Jews and agnostics/atheists (not on paper), more okay with people not being shomer mitzvot (not on paper). Honestly, I think a more difficult question is what is the difference between Conservative and Reform, because increasingly it’s hard to see any, outside of limited acceptance of patrilineal descent in Reform.

[–]AuslanderNoah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like there is an obvious difference between the two.

[–]ummmbaconאחדות עם ישראל | עם ישראל חי 4 points5 points  (4 children)

What are the biggest differences, in practice?

Go and see, go spend time in both communities near you. See what you like about each, ask the Rabbis questions, and schedule a time to talk to them.

[–]Steelsoldier77 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Obnoxious answer

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Oh I very much want to, but I'm bedridden with a chronic illness for the foreseeable future.

[–]FairYouSeeConservative/egalitarian 6 points7 points  (1 child)

One difference: since the pandemic, many conservative synagogues started streaming their services, and some are still doing so for homebound members. In addition to being a difference, it could let you see their services.

Note that due to fears of antisemitism, there may not be a public link to the steamed service, but if you talk to the rabbi you may be able to get one.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for this tip!

[–]Complete-Proposal729 83 points84 points  (7 children)

Disclaimer: There is a wide diversity within each of the streams of Judaism. A lot of what I will say are generalizations and may not apply to every community.

  1. Size of the community: In general, Orthodox synagogues cater to a population walking distance to the synagogue. Conservative and Reform synagogues often cater to a larger area. Therefore, they are often larger, with larger buildings and more family membership units. (Of course there are some large Orthodox synagogues, and small Reform communities, but I'm speaking in generalizations here).
  2. Singing in the service: It is pretty common for Conservative and Reform synagogues to have a professional cantor--i.e. a professional who has an advanced degree in Jewish music to lead the singing in the congregation. Lay-led services are more common in Orthodox synagogues (and thus the quality of the singing isn't generally at a professional level). Conservative and Reform services generally have more singing than Orthodox services. Choirs are not uncommon in Reform and Conservative communities, but are not common in Orthodox communities outside a few specific communities.
  3. Music in the service: Orthodox services generally are without musical instruments, especially on Shabbat. Conservative services occasionally do include musical instruments, but many do not. Reform often includes musical instruments. Reform communities tend to use more contemporary melodies and musical styles, while Conservative and Orthodox communities tend to use more traditional nusach (liturgical melodies), though Conservative services sometimes include some innovative melodies as well.
  4. Observance of the community: As others have said, in Reform community, the stress is on creating your own meaningful religious practice and less on strict observance of ritual law. Conservative communities, while still holding on to Jewish law and aspiring towards full ritual and ethical observance of halacha, you'll find that there's a wide diversity of levels of observance, from "Conservadox" (i.e. pretty much Orthodox in all but name) to not observant at all, and everything in between. Orthodox communities generally expect full observance of its congregants; though of course not all congregants at every Orthodox community is fully observant.
  5. Gender: Reform communities and most (but not all) Conservative communities are egalitarian; that is women and men sit together, they participate equally in the service, they count in a minyan, they may serve as rabbis, etc. There are a few Conservative communities that are not fully egalitarian, whether by incorporating separate seating, or not counting women in the minyan, or not letting women read from the Torah, but these are very few nowadays, and mostly in Canada (I believe). In all Orthodox communities, there are separate roles for men and women. While the left-wing most fringe of Orthodoxy have started allowing women to take on clerical roles, most of Orthodox do not accept women as rabbis. Orthodox synagogues generally have a barrier separating men and women, and most do not give women synagogue honors or leading roles in the service. There are some left wing minyanim called partnership minyanim that maintain the barrier separating men and women, but allow women to take some honors and leading roles in the service--these minyanim generally don't identify as either Conservative or Orthodox.
  6. Microphones: Orthodox communities by and large do not use microphones on Shabbat (although some used to). Reform and Conservative synagogues generally use microphones on Shabbat if needed.
  7. Decorum: Orthodox communities often have less of an expectation of decorum than their more liberal counterparts. It's common in Orthodox communities for people to walk in late and catch up with the davening at their own pace (so some people may be standing while others are sitting). People do not necessarily recite prayers in unison, instead saying them (or mumbling them) at their own pace (the exception is in Sepharadic synagogues, which are much more in unison with the hazzan/prayer leader). It's common to have children (who are not legally bound to regular prayer) to run around and play games. Reform services often took a page from Christian expectations of behavior in church--kids are often expected to sit quietly and follow along, people are expected to show up on time, people are expected to sing and recite prayers in unison (not at their own pace), and chatter during the service is not acceptable. Conservative synagogues tend to be somewhere in between. At Conservative synagogues, it's acceptable to show up late, through fewer people are trying to catch up and do earlier parts of the service mismatched with the rest of the congregation. Often Conservative synagogues have "children's services" for kids. Generally prayers are done in unison, with substantial singing.
  8. Emphasized services: In Reform synagogues, often the Friday night service is the main service of the week, with Saturday morning services being smaller affairs. Sometimes they even include Torah readings on Friday night. In Conservative and Orthodox synagogues, Saturday morning services are generally the largest of the week, and Friday night services are generally relatively short and definitely without Torah reading. Of course most Orthodox synagogues and some Conservative synagogues offer mincha Shabbat services as well as weekday minyanim as well.
  9. Liturgy: The core of the liturgy will be very similar amongst the movements: Introductory blessings, the Shema, and the Amidah. However, Reform synagogues often change some of the wording (for example in the Amidah they say "who gives life to all" instead of "gives life to the Dead) and remove large passages that don't fit their ideology. The emphasis is often on singing songs rather than reciting long passages of prayer. Reform synagogues will often include substantial content in the vernacular (e.g. English), and responsive readings are quite common. Orthodox services generally include full liturgy, with very little flexibility on changing or skipping parts. Furthermore, Orthodox services tend to be entirely in Hebrew (including Prayer for the country, etc). Conservative synagogues are somewhere in between. They generally maintain traditional liturgy, while making a few changes to remove objectionable content (like "she lo asani isha"). Conservative services are mostly done in Hebrew, but the prayer for the country is often done in the vernacular, and an occassional Engish responsive reading here and there is not unheard of. They may condense or skip certain introductory or concluding content, and may include some alternative prayers here and there.
  10. Torah readings: Reform syangogues generally follow the trienniel (3 year) Torah reading cycle. Most Conservative synagogues do as well (though some don't). Orthodox synagogues follow the 1 year Torah reading cycle.
  11. Talitot and kippot: In Reform synagogues, often a talit and kippah are optional for both men and women. In Conservative synagogues, a kippah is required for all men and boys and a talit is expected for Jewish men above Bar Mitzvah age, while the kippah and talit are optional for women. In Orthodox synagogues, the kippah is required for boys and men (at all times, not only in the synagogue), but the talit depends on the community (in many Orthodox Ashkenazi communities, they only start wearing a talit after getting married, while in Sephardic communities they often start wearing the talit at Bar Mitzvah age). Women in Orthodox communities generally are forbidden from wearing a kippah and tallit, through married women are often encouraged to cover their hair either with a scarf or a wig.
  12. Marriage: Reform rabbis will often (not always) perform intermarriages and generally perform same-sex weddings. Conservative rabbis will not preform intermarriages, and some but not others will perform same-sex marriages (between two Jews). Reform and some Conservative rabbis will perform marriages between a kohen and a divorcee or a convert. Orthodox rabbis will not perform intermarriages, same-sex weddings, or marriages between a kohen and a divorcee or convert.
  13. Halacha: Orthodox communities tend to view halacha as binding. They generally say you should follow majority opinions in the Talmud, and they view later law codes (like the Shulchan Aruch) as authoritative. The Conservative movement is also a halachic movement. However, they are more open to considering minority opinions, adopting opinions different to what is found in law codes like the Shulchan Aruch, taking into consideration conflicts between different halachic principles, and using takkanot (halachic decrees) to modify existing halacha if a need arises. Reform communities generally believe that halacha should be the basis of our ethics and morals, but Jewish law, especially in regards to ritual, is not longer binding. Instead, people should be free to develop a ritual practice that is meaningful to them.
  14. Accpetance of modern scholarship: Reform and Conservative is generally open to academic scholarship of the Bible and Jewish tradition. A wide range of views on theology as well as Biblical authorship and historicity is accepted. Traditional Torah study and academic approaches are used side by side. Orthodoxy tends to be skeptical of academic scholarship of the Tanach, favoring the methods of traditional Torah study instead. While there can be some differences in views on Biblical interpretation accepted within Orthodoxy, generally Mosaic authorhip and the divine origins of the Torah as well as the the overall historicity of the Biblical narrative are universally accepted.

[–]Yorkie10252MOSES MOSES MOSES 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is the best comment! When I was in a long-distance relationship, I went to an orthodox shul where my partner lived and a Conservative shul at home. I grew to prefer davening with a mechitza because it made it easier for me to focus. At some shuls, I find this can also create a mental wall for the person leading services, and they’ll sort of forget the women there. But our rabbi was always very attentive to both the men’s and women’s sections during services and made sure we felt involved in discussions.

[–]ShotStatistician7979Long Locks Only Nazirite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is super well done. Kol hakavod, seriously!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Ok my brain fog won't allow me to digest this right now. Could you add paragraph breaks? I promise I will read it later. Thank you for taking the time.

[–]Complete-Proposal729 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I broke it down into a 14 point numbers list already and gave each an italicized heading.

Perhaps it’s not showing up correctly on your screen?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's all good, I can read it :)

[–]neilsharrisOrthodox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well explained.

[–]AuslanderNoah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate this thorough answer

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mostly how strict observance of Shabbat rules, dress code, and separation of sexes.